This is the great
lesson for us all. And it comes in welcoming
the unwelcoming. You share this, that the
person who has caused you the greatest humiliation–
– Right. – –the greatest pain–
– Right. –the greatest suffering is
also your greatest teacher. PEMA CHODRON: That’s right. And we should be
thanking that person. That’s right. Well, someone was asking
about the other day, said, I really don’t buy that. But so we had a great– we
had a good conversation. But they– You don’t have
to buy it or not. If you can see it though,
you can open up to it. You know?
– Yeah. And traditionally
that’s called something like “troublemakers as gurus.” OPRAH WINFREY: Yeah. Yeah, they’re your teachers. Yeah, I share this story that
when I was moving from Chicago, I was going through
all of my old stuff and found all these
love letters that I had written to someone in my 20s. And I sat in the closet
weeping for the woman I was– Yeah, I know. –grateful that
I had come through whatever my delusions were– Yeah. –and also said a
thank you to that guy. Yeah, that’s it exactly.
OPRAH WINFREY: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Because I thought, well,
look who turns out to be one of my greatest teachers–
– And that’s right. –the person that I thought
was causing the greatest pain. That’s right.
That’s right. – Yeah.
– That’s right. But it takes
time to get there. It takes ti– it’s hard to
see it when they’re there. No, when you’re in it. But I think people do
have a lot of wisdom. And if they read a
book like this one, or “When Things Fall
Apart,” or any of them, and that message kind
of clicks as like, ooh, this is interesting to me,
then sometimes, people, they say stumble on the
truth of it themselves. It’s in there. They already know it somehow.